E22: How to Build Effective Sales Funnels to Grow Your Business | Sean Garner
You must know by now that building a sales funnel is crucial for turning potential customers into loyal clients. But how exactly can you do that?
In today’s episode, we dive deep into actionable steps to create an effective funnel, the importance of clear messaging, and prioritizing what truly matters in business.
Tune in to learn how to strategically position your brand, capture qualified leads, and keep them engaged. Whether you're a seasoned business owner or just starting, these insights will set you on the path to sustainable growth.
📒 Show Notes and Resources 📒
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Kellen Ketchersid
Kellen is a co-founder of Stag Business Coaching, business strategist, and a systems thinker. He leverages his extensive experience in biotech and consulting to empower entrepreneurs to navigate complex challenges with strategic growth solutions.
Albert Gillispie
Albert is a serial entrepreneur, business efficiency expert and co-founder of Stag Business Coaching who has founded several multimillion-dollar companies. With expertise in optimizing operations and innovative systems, he mentors business leaders who want to unlock their business’s full potential.
Sean Garner is a man on a mission to help small business owners grow their business and dominate their industry. He and his wife Courtney have been married for 17 years, have 3 amazing children, and they run multiple businesses together.
Sean is a marketing consulting and Certified StoryBrand guide, helping business use storytelling marketing to better connect with customers and standout online.
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EPISODE 22 TRANSCRIPTION
Struggling to Attract New Customers?
[00:00:00] Albert Gillispie: Are you struggling to attract new customers? Today's episode is with Sean Garner from Sean Garner Consulting, a marketing agency offering fractional Chief Marketing Officer services. In today's episode, Sean teaches us how to build a sales funnel that attracts new customers to your business and leads them down a path to work with you so you can solve their problems.
[00:00:30] Kellen Ketchersid: Welcome to the Business Growth Masterclass Podcast, where business growth is made simple. Join us as we explore practical strategies for streamlining operations, boosting profits, and creating stable, valuable companies. We bring you stories from industry leaders sharing their wins, losses, and everything in between. Here we go.
[00:00:55] Albert Gillispie: Welcome to the podcast, Sean Garner. I'm excited.
[00:01:00] Kellen Ketchersid: We're glad you're here. One of the things I like to lead off with is something interesting about you. Doing a little homework, I saw you're a Men's Health Magazine contributor. Tell us about that, Sean. And he even got his picture taken, so go ahead and Google that.
[00:01:12] Albert Gillispie: Yeah.
[00:01:16] Sean Garner: Oh yeah. You can Google "Sean Garner Men's Health Magazine." You might see some things you don't want to look at. I was in the fitness industry for a really long time, and getting into the magazine was a two-step process. First, I went on a reality TV show called Next Top Trainer. It’s like American Idol for personal trainers. You can find it on YouTube if you're curious. I owned a gym at the time, applied, and ended up on season two, where I got second place. Typically, when you get second place, you don’t get anything; it’s usually win or go home. But I was working with a business coach, and he advised me to get everyone’s contact information, saying he’d show me what to do with it afterward. So, while I was there, I was snapping selfies with everyone on staff—the guy holding the boom mic, the lighting crew—and on the last day, I got all their contact information.
Networking Success
[00:02:30] Sean Garner: On the last day, I got everyone’s contact information. When I got back, my coach told me what to do next: go to the dollar store, buy a cheap plexiglass picture frame, put those pictures in it, and mail each person a handwritten thank-you note, expressing my gratitude for the opportunity on the show. So I did exactly that, sent it to everyone involved, and didn’t hear anything for about three months. Then, out of the blue, the fitness advisor, who was also the head fitness editor, called me and said, “I’ve been in my office for six months, and I don’t even have a picture of my wife here. But for some reason, your picture is sitting on my desk.” Long story short, those thank-you cards landed me my first article with them. That one did well, which led to social media content, becoming a regular contributor for social media videos and writing, and eventually getting my own at-home fitness DVD.
[00:03:28] Sean Garner: It was called "Six-Week Sweat Off," or something like that. Yeah, sure, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. So that was my little bit of fitness celebrity status for a while. Now, I just gift it to people as a gag gift for Christmas. Maybe if you guys are lucky, you’ll get a Six-Week Sweat Off DVD for Christmas.
[00:03:57] Kellen Ketchersid: I need that six weeks in my life.
[00:04:02] Albert Gillispie: Man, I had no idea you were on a reality TV show. You sandbagger. You gotta lead with that, man.
[00:04:10] Kellen Ketchersid: Intro yourself with that in every conversation.
[00:04:13] Sean Garner: I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. I've got many leather-bound books, and my office smells of rich mahogany.
[00:04:20] Kellen Ketchersid: Fun fact for our listeners: Sean is the second reality show second-place guest we've had. Cole Wisenhunt was second on "Knight School" with Bobby Knight back in 2004.
[00:04:34] Albert Gillispie: First loser, right? That’s what second place is.
[00:04:37] Kellen Ketchersid: Exactly! That’s the kind of second-place people we can get. Well, Sean, I love that because I already see your marketing mind at work. Even when you were a fitness coach, you were thinking about how to market your business.
[00:04:49] Kellen Ketchersid: And so I guess there was a point where you pivoted, right? You went from being a fitness coach to what you’re doing now as a fractional CMO and marketing service. So can you tell us how you got into that? How did you make that transition?
From Personal Training to Business Consulting
[00:05:01] Sean Garner: Yeah, so I even got into entrepreneurship when I was working as a firefighter. I’ve had many jobs in my day. I went to school to be a youth minister, ended up becoming a restaurant manager—hated that—managed several restaurants, then got into the fire service. I was a firefighter paramedic for about five or six years. When I joined the fire service, that’s what got me into fitness. Before that, I was not an athlete or fit at all. My wife jokes that when we got married, we were the same weight. And it's not because my wife was big; I was a skinny, 130-pound beanpole who just skateboarded and played video games.
[00:05:46] Sean Garner: I was completely opposite of what I am now. Once I joined the fire service, that got me into fitness. I honestly started our first business because my wife was like, "Hey, that’s great, you’re a firefighter now." We didn’t have any kids, but she said, "You’re home too much." As a firefighter, you only work 10 days a month. So, we ended up opening a gym. I’d gotten into fitness, and we opened the gym, which did really well. After about a year, I had the opportunity to leave the fire service because the gym was thriving. We became full-time entrepreneurs and gym owners. That led us to buy out a second gym, which was a competing gym about a mile away. So, we owned a couple of gyms, were in the fitness industry for a long time, bought the gyms, sold the gyms. Lost a lot—lost a lot of money in gyms—because, as they say, pride comes before the fall. We had two gyms that did really well. I sold those, made some money, and thought I was this fitness guru. I opened a third gym and lost every penny plus probably six figures more than what we had put into it. It was a horrible deal, and we ended up closing it all down.
[00:06:57] Sean Garner: And we moved to Miami, still working in the fitness industry. That’s when the social media stuff started taking off. I began doing brand deals for fitness and working with Men's Health Magazine as a writer and fitness advisor. People were seeing me on social media because of that. So, I was doing brand deals and creating social content for myself and for different companies. I started having colleagues and other personal trainer friends asking how I was doing all this stuff online.
[00:07:27] Sean Garner: I had launched an online training product called Project Dad Bod, aimed at helping busy dads get fit. I was doing that and brand deals, and friends started asking, “Hey, you’re making all this extra money on the side; can you show me how to do that?” I was self-taught, watching YouTube videos to learn about building funnels, websites, email marketing, and all that. I started helping friends with it and soon realized I was enjoying helping them grow their business more than I enjoyed the training side.
Embracing Failures and Lessons Learned
[00:08:00] Sean Garner: Gradually, I started training fewer people in person and focusing more on consulting for digital fitness. I ended up working with a fitness app, and I had my consulting business where I helped personal trainers and gym owners transition their business online. Then one day, my attorney approached me and said, “Hey, you’re doing great with personal trainers and gym owners, but I think I need the same stuff for my business. Do you think it would work?” I said, “Yeah, sure. Let’s try it.” So, we set up his marketing funnel and everything.
[00:08:32] Sean Garner: Then my wife opened her own medical practice about four years ago. She was like, "Hey babe, you know how to do all this stuff. We don’t need to hire a marketing company. You just do it." So I said, "Alright, cool. Let’s figure it out." We set it all up and got her marketing funnel working. Over time, I started realizing I enjoyed helping other service-based businesses even more than just working in the fitness industry. I was done with just helping people share and show off their six-packs.
[00:09:00] Sean Garner: The business slowly morphed from consulting to more agency services. I loved learning it myself and was telling others how to do it, but very few business owners have the time or want to get into marketing themselves. They just want to serve their clients. So, over the past 10 years, it evolved into a full-service marketing agency with fractional CMO services.
[00:09:36] Albert Gillispie: Completely unrelated question, but I’m going somewhere with this. Were you, like, a straight-A student?
[00:09:45] Sean Garner: No, I barely graduated high school. The college I went to sounds super holy and spiritual because I went into youth ministry, but it’s because they had the lowest acceptance rate for an ACT score since it was a Bible college. That was the only college I could get into, and it just so happened the girl I was dating, who’s now my wife, was going there too.
The Power of Taking Action
[00:10:10] Albert Gillispie: So that worked out. I bring this up to say that it sounds like you’re okay with trying stuff. Most of our society and school teach you not to fail—you better get straight A’s, don’t make any mistakes, just get it right from the start.
[00:10:33] Kellen Ketchersid: Take the certain path.
[00:10:33] Albert Gillispie: I didn’t know you had eight different careers before this, but it all makes perfect sense. I think, as an entrepreneur, being okay with trying things and learning about yourself—what you’re good at, what naturally lights that fire within you—that’s one of those things I want to teach my boys. Hey, guys, we’re going to try stuff. We’re going to be bad at it, and that’s okay, because we’ll learn something about ourselves. So, what is it in you? Was it your parents? Was it not having a choice? What made it okay to try all these different things, maybe suck at them, or hate them, and then move to the next thing?
[00:11:29] Sean Garner: Man, that’s a great question. In society today, I think social media worsens the problem because people see this perfect lifestyle everyone seems to have, and it even glorifies entrepreneurship. I love it and personally believe everyone should have some type of side business. It doesn’t have to be full-time, but that’s just my belief. I also don’t think everyone should be a full-time entrepreneur. I think a lot of my willingness to try things came from ignorance—I didn’t know better. I didn’t know I was doing badly until I was doing badly, and I thought, okay, this works; maybe something else can work.
[00:12:00] Sean Garner: There’s a part of me that always thinks, if somebody else has done it, why not me? It’s like Roger Bannister breaking the four-minute mile; I might not have been first, but if I saw someone else do it, I thought, if they can do it, why not me?
[00:12:35] Sean Garner: And that's honestly my mindset with a lot of things. Well, if they can do it, why not me? And getting biblical, God’s no respecter of persons. So if that person can do it, why not me? Now, I love seeing other people win because I'm like, that’s awesome. If they did it, why not me? But growing up, I didn’t have entrepreneurial families around me.
[00:13:00] Sean Garner: I grew up very middle class at best, but probably more on the poor side—raised a family of five on 30k a year. We didn’t have a lot of extra. I think because of that, I saw the outcome of that lifestyle, but I also saw the input that went into it. When I moved to Miami, that was the biggest mindset shift I ever had. Growing up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, middle-class America, I hadn’t been exposed to that level of wealth. Moving to Miami, I was around people who had wealth I thought only existed in movies. I had the opportunity to train people who were literal billionaires, and the way they thought about money and opportunities completely shifted my perspective.
[00:14:00] Sean Garner: Before I went to Miami, my businesses were the gyms, which were very much trading time for money. I was essentially buying myself a job. Once I started hanging around people worth a hundred million to billions, the way they talked about things encouraged me to do more and to be okay with failing. They’d tell me their stories, and you’d think these guys probably just had it together their whole life, worked for a hedge fund or something, but every single one of them, especially the ones I respected the most, came from nothing. They talked about how they had to fail multiple times.
[00:14:38] Sean Garner: I remember one of them, he created the software that goes inside turnpike passes in cars. He was saying, "Sean, just 10 years ago, I was bankrupt in my attic working on a laptop. I was headed toward divorce." Then he said, "I just sold my company, six months ago at the time, for about 300 million dollars." One thing he said that resonated with me and I still think about all the time was, "Where will you be, and what will you do in the next 10 years?" It’s that thought of, where you are now is not the final destination.
Balancing Family, Faith, and Business
[00:15:34] Sean Garner: If you can view everything as a learning experience, you can realize where you're at is not the end. There’s always room for improvement and so many opportunities out there. I truly believe that when you don’t quit, you win. It’s those who stick, stay, and persevere who make it. But in our society, people think it’s supposed to be perfect all the time. When it’s not, they just want to quit, but that’s not how it is.
[00:15:50] Albert Gillispie: Yeah, we say that all the time. You only lose when you give up.
[00:15:57] Kellen Ketchersid: Ketracid’s never quit.
[00:15:58] Albert Gillispie: And then my oldest son likes to say, "Except when they do." Sarcastic response. But, no, what I take away from that too is like, and I think you're a great example of this, is being okay with the uncertainty but just going for it. Uncertainty means maybe this won’t work out, but maybe it’ll lead to more big things you can’t even see yet.
[00:16:19] Kellen Ketchersid: I would imagine you didn’t know how you were going to evolve along this path when you started out. Like, the door opened for gym ownership, then for marketing for gym owners, and so on. Now you’re here.
[00:16:37] Kellen Ketchersid: I think that's what a lot of people are afraid of. Like, if I set out on this path, I don't know exactly where it's going to go. That's scary. But to flip that, you could say, well, no, that's exciting because who knows where this might go.
[00:16:52] Albert Gillispie: Yeah. And I would add to that, like, as an entrepreneur, it takes a little bit of, I don't know how to say the word... you have to be naive to a degree. Like, just ignorant enough—ignorance is bliss. Just ignorant enough to think you could.
[00:17:11] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah.
[00:17:11] Albert Gillispie: And, like you said, you take a leap of faith. You're going to be bad at it, but you have the courage to keep doing it until you develop the capability. And then it’s just another skill set, just another Monday.
[00:17:27] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah. And it's okay if you don't always hit a home run. Speaking of that, I'm curious for you, Sean, can you tell us about a time where you fell flat on your face or when something you thought was going to be a big win wasn't?
[00:17:45] Sean Garner: Almost everything except for what I'm doing now. It's been failures in the eyes of the world, financially, but I truly believe that the reason I am where I am now is because I learned from all those mistakes. It took a long time. The biggest limiting factor that held me back was that I was just now at the point where—not that I'd say I've arrived or am wise—but I'm definitely wiser. I was very much spiritually immature, and because of that, I was blind to several other things.
[00:18:17] Sean Garner: For the first 10 years of marriage and business, I was so spiritually immature. I wasn’t properly leading my family.
[00:18:38] Sean Garner: I didn't really know who I was, especially who I was in Christ, and I was so ignorant to the fact that when something went wrong, I would just always blame other people. So if it went wrong, I’d think, oh, well, that didn’t work out. Like the gym that I told you about—we sold two of the gyms, made some money, and then I invested in this third gym because I thought, oh, I'm going to move to a bigger city. Now we've got a bigger location. I'm a genius. I had the largest CrossFit gym in Oklahoma at one point. I thought, I know what I'm doing. Like I said, pride—didn’t say it, the Bible says it—but pride before the fall.
[00:19:22] Sean Garner: I was so prideful, and when that gym failed because my pride and ego were so big, I was quick to blame others. I wasn’t able to take personal responsibility or ownership for any of the decisions. It took me several years after the fact, as I started to grow and become more spiritually mature, to step back and think, oh, I see exactly what I did wrong. I was an idiot. Now, that’s led me to where I am, where I can look at things with a more objective perspective. When things aren't working, I understand when to pivot.
[00:19:57] Kellen Ketchersid: That balance of humility you just talked about, getting humbled by some of the things you go for, but also not losing that part of you that's willing to go for it—that’s a tough balance to strike. But when you get it right…
[00:20:13] Sean Garner: Yeah, you have to be willing to go out if you want to make it big and really accomplish those big dreams and goals. Lots of people have big dreams and big goals, but very few take the necessary step, which is taking action.
[00:20:26] Sean Garner: What I tell clients all the time is, if you're waiting to be absolutely proud of your website, your product, or whatever it is before you launch, you're waiting too long. I say all the time, done is better than perfect. You need to just go out there and take action because too many people want everything to look 100 percent perfect. We talked about comparison syndrome—all the things you see on social media and stuff—it's got to be perfect. But just get out there and start doing things, especially when you're starting out. You'll learn more and grow faster by being in the field, making things happen, and gaining real-world experience than by reading any book, taking any course, or working with any mentor. Failure is only failure if you look at it that way, because the experience you get from it is a 10x return on anything else.
[00:21:19] Albert Gillispie: So true. And, spoiler alert, we are Stag Business Coaching. We’re clients of yours, and you're our fractional chief marketing officer. So, talk about putting something imperfect out there—right here. We’re only doing this podcast because you said, "Guys, this is a tool you need to develop and start using." Man, I mean, we’re always trying to get better at this, one percent improvement every time, but those first four episodes were painful. I didn’t like anything I said, the way I said it, how quickly I said it—it took me five sentences to say something that should've taken one.
[00:22:25] Sean Garner: But look at this, though. How long ago did you guys start the podcast?
[00:22:32] Albert Gillispie: I was gonna say two or three months ago, tops.
[00:22:33] Sean Garner: Right. And then in the past three months, you've done now, like, we're recording episodes in the twenties, right?
The Importance of Prioritizing Over Balancing
[00:22:41] Albert Gillispie: This is episode 22, and we highlighted this one as a big one because of something you told us three months ago. I can't remember who the quote is from, but only 1 percent of podcasters get past episode 21. So, thanks to you, we are in the 1 percent.
[00:23:05] Sean Garner: Top 1 percenters! But look at this. Think about all the podcasts you've listened to, courses you could have bought, all the different things. You guys are not poor speakers; you communicate often. But look at the exponential growth you've had in the past three months by just doing it. And yes, the first episodes weren’t amazing, but look at the trajectory now.
[00:23:37] Sean Garner: If that same growth continues, imagine where you’ll be. Props to you for taking action, being comfortable with not being perfect, and look at the growth you’ve already had. Imagine what it’ll look like for all aspects of your life, just by persevering and continuing. Disciplines carry over to other parts of life, so by taking action here, yes, it’s growing your business and exposure, but look at the communication skills you're building, the network you're expanding. The returns on taking action are exponential.
[00:24:10] Sean Garner: Too often, people look only at the direct return and miss the ripple effect of taking action. Think about the subconscious, psychological benefits from doing something you were uncomfortable with and now seeing the growth from it. That carries over to every part of your life.
[00:24:41] Albert Gillispie: Yeah, I try to tell my boys that often, and I don't say it in this way, but how you do one thing is how you do everything.
[00:24:50] Albert Gillispie: Yeah.
[00:24:51] Sean Garner: Yeah.
[00:24:51] Albert Gillispie: So if you're disciplined and do what you say you're going to do in one area, chances are you'll do that in every area—whether that's your health, family, faith, or job. I think people’s character, and this is why I feel like we're in business together, is because we trust each other's character. That's such a vital thing in doing business.
[00:25:20] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah. You just never know how working on a skill or taking action, like Sean's saying, is going to help you down the road in a totally different area you never anticipated. You work on something, like I'm thinking about high school public speaking—you never know when that's going to help you down the road or build trust in other ways. Sean has been a big encouragement to us as we're going down this road.
[00:26:00] Kellen Ketchersid: So, I'm curious for you, Sean. Aside from working with Stag, which I'm sure has been nothing but inspiring, tell us about some rewarding experiences you've had doing what you're doing.
[00:26:03] Sean Garner: I was thinking about that earlier because you guys had mentioned it, and I started looking at commonalities. I was sending you guys some stuff about the Men's Health thing and everything before we got on, and it led me down memory lane. I thought, "Oh my gosh, that was like seven years ago, ten years ago." I was looking at some of this old stuff, and I was just sitting here in the office, reflecting before we started. I thought, it seems very random for the career path, but now I’m starting to see some commonalities.
[00:26:25] Sean Garner: If I could boil down what I do now and what I enjoy—the fulfillment I get from it—I like helping, serving, and teaching people. Those three things were there when I was in ministry, food service, firefighting, fitness, and now with business coaching and marketing agency services. What I like is seeing people get it—when they have that aha moment or break through a plateau they were stuck at.
Building Customer-Centric Marketing
[00:26:45] Sean Garner: When I worked with fitness clients, it was seeing athletes, maybe pro athletes or others, who thought they were done playing because of an injury, light up when they realized it wasn’t over for them. Or the mom or dad who thought they’d reached their peak, then lost weight and got to where they wanted to be.
[00:27:00] Sean Garner: Now, with business, it’s the business owner who’s been at it a long time, thinking, "Is this as good as it gets?" and helping them see there’s so much more. It's rewarding to see that breakthrough moment. Or a newer business, like with you guys getting started, realizing what’s possible. You both run multiple businesses, and helping someone start something new and see that aha moment—that’s what drives me.
[00:28:02] Sean Garner: Cause I said at the beginning, I don't think entrepreneurship is for everyone, but I think everyone can do it. And that sounds like an oxymoron, but I think anybody can do it if they have what it takes and they're really willing to persevere and push through. But because most people aren't willing to do that, that's why they shouldn't do it.
[00:28:28] Albert Gillispie: I love that.
[00:28:30] Albert Gillispie: I mean, of course, social media glorifies it and glorifies the grind and hustle culture, and at the same time romanticizes how easy and predictable it is, and it isn’t. I do want to ask, you know, tease out a little bit of what you do now.
[00:28:52] Albert Gillispie: So, obviously, you have a marketing agency, and you offer fractional CMO, or Chief Marketing Officer services. Can you kind of describe to our listeners, like, what is that? How do I explain that to my mom or to my six-year-old?
[00:29:11] Sean Garner: I have to. My mom asked me the other day, she's like, "So, what do you do? I see you make these videos on the internet. Are you, like, a podcaster? What do you do?" So, I explained, "This is what I do." How I explain it to people is, like, the quick pitch is we build, fill, and optimize sales funnels.
[00:29:32] Sean Garner: And what a sales funnel is to us, it’s not a website, it’s not a software tool—it’s a process of taking people from not knowing who you are to becoming a superfan customer for life. So, we use various technologies, websites, messaging, and social media content to make those things happen. What we do, and what we specialize in, is working with service-based businesses, typically those looking to book calls or schedule appointments. We help them get in front of their dream customers, find those dream customers, and enter them into a sales funnel system.
[00:29:57] Sean Garner: So they actually end up becoming customers for them. That's our boom of what we do. The agency now has shifted because of bad experiences I've had. I started with just business coaching for fitness professionals but realized I was telling everybody how to do things, and they weren't executing.
[00:30:19] Sean Garner: So I would say, "Hey, you need to go learn how to build a website." And these guys, they're personal trainers—they didn't want to learn how to do that. So I said, "Okay, I’ll just do it for you, and you can pay me." Then I realized I didn't want to build websites all day, so I hired people. It slowly expanded, and I realized that telling people things doesn't help if they aren’t taking action. One of my favorite quotes is, "Knowledge without execution is meaningless." If nobody's executing, it doesn't help them.
[00:30:48] Sean Garner: So, we started doing more agency services, and I realized the more we did, the less they needed instructions. It's like, "You go do what you like, and let me handle the rest." That's where the hybrid model of agency services and fractional CMO comes in. For clients like you, we’re not just executing—we’re also giving strategy so everything is cohesive.
[00:31:28] Sean Garner: What a lot of agencies do is, you hire them for a beautiful website, and then maybe another for social media, but there’s no unified strategy. The brand ends up feeling inauthentic and fragmented with different strategies in play. What we do is bring a unified strategy to build brand messaging and the entire sales funnel process, and we don’t just tell you how to do it.
[00:31:54] Sean Garner: We actually do it and help you implement everything as well. So we give you the strategy, plus we actually just do the work for you.
[00:32:03] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah, that’s great—thinking from a strategic level and having everything be coherent and go together instead of, like, we built this piece, and then we built that piece, and they kind of go together, but we were in different mindsets when we did that. I feel like that’s a common pitfall for a lot of business owners.
[00:32:21] Albert Gillispie: And marketing is so "woo" to me, especially as an outsider. I don’t know what it is, and what you’ve really helped articulate, along with Donald Miller's programs—which we’re both certified in various forms of—is how do I communicate clearly to a customer describing a problem they’re experiencing, and how can our service or product help them solve that issue?
[00:32:42] Albert Gillispie: And then, from the marketing perspective, it’s about how can I communicate that as clearly and engagingly as possible so that the customer feels that, is engaged in the conversation, and wants to learn a little bit more.
[00:33:12] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah.
[00:33:12] Albert Gillispie: And, little by little, working down that funnel until you get to the point of sale. You really demystified that for us. Obviously, we haven’t arrived, and I don’t know that we fully get it, but I appreciate that part of you—the teacher part—that has really held our hand and taught us something completely different, a completely different side of business.
[00:33:34] Albert Gillispie: We’ve read a lot of books and have multiple companies, and I’ve really enjoyed it. You’ve given us so many nuggets and practical tools that we’re implementing across all our businesses.
[00:33:56] Albert Gillispie: So I guess I want to ask, what's one thing that you think businesses get wrong when it comes to marketing?
Simplifying Marketing Through Clear Messaging
[00:34:09] Sean Garner: A lot, but I think one of the most common things I see is they focus on the right things, but in the wrong order. You mentioned Don Miller. Our agency is a certified StoryBrand guide, so for us, it always comes down to messaging. I think businesses often get more consumed with the visual aspects of their brand than the actual words and meaning behind it.
[00:34:24] Sean Garner: So we always focus on words first whenever we're working with clients. We’re going to put together a brand package, but I'm pretty blunt with my clients about not caring too much about the visual details. I tell them this all the time; they’ll ask me opinions on logos and colors, and I say, "I don't care."
[00:34:50] Sean Garner: The example I always use is that P90X is a dumb name, but it made millions of dollars. You make the name; I've seen really wealthy companies with great logos, and poor ones with great logos. What matters is your character, your essence, and the true aspect of your brand, which comes down to the words you use to communicate the problem you solve and how you improve customers' lives.
[00:35:06] Sean Garner: Too often, businesses, especially new ones, start with, "Hey, I’m starting a business. I need a website." They’ll pay a designer who makes a beautiful website, but it’s more like a piece of art. It looks great, but there’s no clear messaging or cohesive strategy guiding customers to become leads or clients. Then they think, "I need social media content." They want to go viral, so they get their nephew, who’s good at social media, to help, but he’s thinking about it from his perspective as a young 20-year-old who doesn’t understand the business or brand.
[00:36:19] Sean Garner: Now, Dave is shooting the social media content, and they're like, "This isn't working. We should spend money on paid ads now." So they start pouring money into pay-per-click ads with Google and Facebook. They hire someone through Upwork or from overseas to manage it, someone who doesn’t know the brand, the culture, or the target market. Then they get frustrated and think, "I don’t understand why it’s not working."
[00:36:44] Sean Garner: That’s often when we get a client, and they say, "I've tried everything; it's not working." The first thing we go back to is, "What's the problem you solve?" What I’ve found is—this might sound a little odd—not enough businesses love and are obsessed with their customers. They focus so much on themselves that they don’t think enough about helping their customers or addressing their customers’ problems.
[00:37:00] Sean Garner: This might sound strange, but I think about you guys all the time—even weirder, I think about you when I’m in the shower. I’m always thinking about all of our clients: "What can we be doing to help? What tools do we need to create to serve them better? How can I help them get more podcast guests or drive more traffic to their website?" I'm constantly obsessing over how to make things better for my clients.
[00:37:43] Sean Garner: And because I do that, that helps me to be able to clearly communicate to them. That’s why, just like with you guys, if you go to my website, it probably feels like, because you’re my customers, man, it sounds like he’s talking directly to us. Well, it’s because I obsess about the type of person that I want to work with so much that my marketing comes across for that person.
[00:38:05] Sean Garner: And I'm not trying to be all things to all people. I'm very clear on the problem that I solve and how I'm going to make their life better. So the people that want that are attracted to that. And I think, because they're doing things in the wrong order, they're not focusing on the messaging, and that’s keeping most businesses stuck with where they're at.
[00:38:23] Kellen Ketchersid: That's so true about drawing into your life the people... I mean, it works in life and in business, you know, putting out there authentically who you are and who you want to attract into your business as a customer and serving those people. No, it’s not about you. When you make it about them and give them the most value for engaging with your business, now everybody wins, and they walk away wanting to tell all their friends because they had a great experience with you. So I know that's what we have with you, and that’s what we want for all of our clients too. It’s like, man, what a great thing I got out of this business coaching; it’s the best money I ever spent.
[00:39:01] Albert Gillispie: Business exists to solve problems, right? To solve customers’ problems. And that's what marketing is that we've learned—is how can I articulate, describe this customer's problem in a way that they can see themselves in that? And then, how do I go solve it?
[00:39:23] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah, how are we going
[00:39:23] Albert Gillispie: to take them
[00:39:24] Kellen Ketchersid: on that journey?
[00:39:24] Albert Gillispie: Yeah. Go fix problems. That problem...and you've broken me, Sean. Any website that I go to now that is this beautiful website, just this homage to this business and the founder and what he's done in his career and what the last 30 years have looked like...and I'm like, I don't know what problem they solve.
[00:39:47] Albert Gillispie: Yeah, I don't know how to do business with them. If I can't read this website in eight seconds and know exactly what problem they solve and how I can do business with them in two clicks or less, I'm mad. You've ruined me.
[00:40:04] Kellen Ketchersid: That's a common problem. I do want to shift gears because I have a question for Sean as we've been talking, and I know you're a family man. I know you and your wife work together or collaborate on different things. So, for a lot of people out there listening, how do you manage, you know, you're thinking about us a lot apparently, which is great, but also...shower, yeah. But how do you manage running a business and also being there as a husband, as a father, man of faith—all the things that are also, and those things are even more important to you.
[00:40:41] Sean Garner: I do not believe that there is such a thing as work-life balance. I don't think that that is a thing or can exist because if you have work-life balance, it means that those things are equal. And so I don't think that they should be equal. I think what you should have is work-life priorities. So oftentimes what happens is people, they're trying to balance things, and they don't realize that by trying to balance things, you're putting your work and your career equal with your family. For me, I'm a Christian. I'm a man of God.
[00:41:15] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah.
[00:41:16] Sean Garner: My work should not be equal to my relationship with God. My work, my relationship with my family shouldn’t be greater than my relationship with God. So for me, it’s about trying my best to make sure it’s prioritized in the right alignment versus the balance beam, like if you think about this teeter-totter thing. I have not mastered this, and this is something that my wife and I are constantly working on because just like everyone else in life, we’re busy.
[00:41:41] Sean Garner: Together we own four companies. We've got the marketing agency. We have a short-term real estate Airbnb business that we do. We have an IV therapy lounge that we own, and we own a medical clinic. So we’ve got a lot of different things that we’re doing. Plus, we’ve got three kids that are, you know, 11, 10, and five. So we’re busy with kids’ events and stuff. Plus I’m also in full-time ministry school right now. And so there’s a lot that’s going on. And so if I’m trying to balance all of those things, something is going to be out of priority.
[00:42:22] Sean Garner: So for us, what we try to do is we try to make sure that we’re in alignment with priorities instead of trying to balance things. And then for her and I, we have just like some actual practical things that we do because I do think things will come and go in seasons. So we are coming into a season now where probably about four years ago, it was my time. I was working a crazy amount of hours and stuff, and my wife was kind of stepping back, doing more of the family stuff and everything, right? Then during COVID and everything, we shifted and pivoted things to where she was starting her medical practice at that point. So I started doing more of the stuff around the house, cooking, and doing things around with shuffling the kids around and stuff a lot more.
[00:43:00] Sean Garner: Well now, over about the past probably about a year, we’ve started to shift back because we’re at a transition point in all of our businesses where her medical practice is very blessed and successful. She’s on like a three-month waiting list to become a new patient for her. So it’s solid. And then the marketing agency is doing really well, but with me being in school full-time, plus the agency has exploded over the past 12 months. And then I’m also shifting into starting a new software company. It’s kind of like she’s starting now, but all right, now I’m going to start doing a little bit more than seven, not saying all that she, she didn’t do anything, but now she’s definitely taking a whole lot more and I’m definitely stepping back from more of the day-to-day family activities and stuff, even though it’s still extremely busy. But we have to have that stuff in alignment. We have to have a plan for seasons and then her and I do a lot of practical things. So you gotta date your wife.
[00:43:58] Sean Garner: We've been married for 19 and a half years. We're coming up here on year 20 and everything. So we've been married for a while, but we still, we gotta date each other. So on Wednesdays, she works from home, and we’ll try and hang out, maybe do a lunch date or something like that and just spend time together. We try to, at least once every six weeks or so, do a weekend—whether it be a staycation or we're just going to drive to Dallas for a weekend. Maybe we'll go to one of our cabins or something like that and just try to do something to where we can get away with no kids every six, at most eight, weeks.
[00:44:38] Sean Garner: And then, other than that, we're big on experiences with our kids. One of the things that my wife does with our daughters—and I’ll do with my son when he gets older—is for birthdays, they have an option: Do you want a birthday party, or do you want a one-on-one trip? The kids always pick the one-on-one trip. So my wife will take the daughters on a one-on-one trip. They get to go wherever they want. And then, we’re big on, even for Christmas and other times, taking vacations and creating experiences.
[00:45:00] Sean Garner: Last weekend we were in—this will sound super snooty—Miami, and next week we're going to Hawaii for about 10 days. Then, next month, we're going on a trip up to the mountains. We try to plan all these things to create experiences for our kids so they know Mommy and Daddy work really hard. But at the same time, whenever we're together, we work hard and play hard.
[00:45:26] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah, oh man, all of that is so good. And I mean, Albert and I, I know we feel the same way. I love how you reframed that at the beginning where it's not about balance; it's about your priorities. I think of my mom; she always says, "Put the big rocks in first," you know? And that's true. You demonstrate that in practical ways with these date nights with your wife or weekend getaways with the kids. I think anyone out there listening and thinking about it in terms of balance should probably reframe it in the way you just said, thinking about what you really want to prioritize. For all three of us, I think it's God, then family, then the career pursuits.
[00:46:21] Albert Gillispie: Yeah. And that takes real communication and staying on the same page. I love the experiences piece because you can buy your kid all the things, all the toys, but they don’t care about that. Yes, they’ll play with it for a day or a week, and then it’s just another thing in the toy box. But the trips, the memories—those are things they’ll remember forever.
[00:46:50] Sean Garner: At first, they didn't want to do it. So, we were pitching the idea to them a couple of years ago, and my daughter was like, "I really want to have a birthday party and have all my friends." I said, "What did you do last year for your birthday?" I couldn’t remember.
[00:47:04] Sean Garner: Did we... I think we went to the trampoline park? I was like, no, no, no. We did something else. We had a pool party. "Oh yeah, okay, I remember that." I said, "What's the last trip we went on?" "Oh, we went skiing a couple of months ago," and she went all in. I said, "That's why we're doing the trips. You're going to remember all these experiences you had as a family. You're not going to care that Susie came and bought you a new doll."
[00:47:27] Kellen Ketchersid: That's so good. I'm going to steal some of that with my kiddos for the next birthday.
[00:47:32] Albert Gillispie: I know. My boys love to travel.
[00:47:35] Kellen Ketchersid: All right, so Sean, looking ahead, what are you most excited for when it comes to your business and running your company?
Future Business Plans and Developing Passive Systems
[00:47:44] Sean Garner: Two things. One, I'm really excited for what we've got going on with the IV therapy business we started. It'll be about one year since we launched it last November, and it's just now at the point where it's kind of stabilized.
[00:47:58] Sean Garner: We’ve been pretty blessed and very thankful that just from the first month, it's been profitable. But we're at the point now where we're starting to build out systems, build out the whole team and things like that, because this is the first business that my wife and I have that is not going to require us. It has staff that can run it, and we're bringing in managers and things. The medical practice—they’re obviously going to see her. With the marketing agency, they want the fractional CMO, so they want to talk to me. This is the first business we've created where it doesn't need that much of us. The Airbnb stuff is similar, but we still self-manage it, so we're talking and communicating with the guests. But this is the first thing where we're pretty hands-off, and that’s exciting.
[00:48:37] Sean Garner: Because it’s teaching me how to build out systems to actually build a true business. Right now, if I’m being honest, with the marketing agency, I've created myself a very high-paying job, but it's still something I have to show up for. This is the first time I feel like I'm actually creating a business. So that's really exciting. We're building out some new things for that, looking for a second location, and my goal with that business is to build it out so we can either sell it off or franchise it eventually.
[00:49:18] Sean Garner: On the marketing agency side, we’re creating a new software program. Just like with our clients, we're trying to identify the problems they're dealing with and how we can solve them. I think a lot of marketing agencies try to overcomplicate things. I think most industries do this to make it seem like what they do is more difficult and complex than it really is, to keep people from leaving. In fitness, they often overcomplicate nutrition, supplements, and workouts, but it's actually pretty simple. I think the same thing applies to marketing. It seems difficult because of all these terms like impressions, SEO, conversions, click-through rates, and such, but it's just marketing jargon that can make it sound confusing.
[00:50:04] Sean Garner: The same thing has happened with some of the software tools. The more clients we work with, we’re starting to find out that they have all these different tools. Just like we talked about with what we do as a service, there are so many fragmented services that are duct-taped together to create their marketing service. The same thing has happened with their tools. They have one tool for building websites, another for email marketing, another for text message marketing, another for posting social content.
[00:50:28] Sean Garner: They have all these different tools, so now we're creating software to make a marketing toolkit and CRM simple. Our approach to marketing and everything we do is about simplicity, so we’re building a software called Story Guide Funnels. The whole point of this software is to be your marketing toolkit and CRM made simple. It’s going to be completely white-glove onboarded for you. A lot of times, you sign up for something like MailChimp or Active Campaign, and you have to go through onboarding, watch tutorial videos, and figure out how to connect everything and get it working.
[00:51:01] Sean Garner: Busy business owners don’t want to learn all the tech; they just want to know the functionality is built out for them. I’m really excited about this because it will serve our clients—busy business owners—better. It will also be something that won’t require me personally. Today, we hired some support staff to do 24/7 tech support and handle all of that, so it’s about building another business with a full team, and that’s really exciting.
[00:51:32] Kellen Ketchersid: So great. I think some of the things you're saying remind me of Peter Thiel in Zero to One. He talks about businesses that try to look big, trying to be self-aggrandizing, talking about how great they are. Then there are companies that are monopolies or just downplaying everything. Thinking about what you were saying earlier, a lot of people try to make what they’re doing sound complex. But it’s really the confident business owner—or in your case, a coach or consultant—that’s saying, “No, let’s make this simple for you and get this to a place where you can run it easily.” I think that’s when you know you’re working with somebody who really knows what they’re doing. I just love that. I love the approach you take. I mean, it makes sense with "made simple," you know?
[00:52:19] Albert Gillispie: Yeah.
[00:52:20] Kellen Ketchersid: Did you want to add anything to that, Albert?
[00:52:27] Albert Gillispie: No, no, you hit it.
Fire Round
[00:52:27] Kellen Ketchersid: All right, well, I think we're ready for our fire round. I'm ready. All right, Sean, what’s your favorite movie?
[00:52:39] Sean Garner: Couldn’t think of a movie, but I can go with a TV show—The Office. I could honestly have The Office on repeat 24/7. I love that show.
[00:52:48] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah, that’s a great choice.
[00:52:51] Albert Gillispie: All right, what’s your favorite book?
[00:53:00] Sean Garner: Again? I can't just pick one aside from the Bible. I was going to say, I’ll give the Sunday school answer—the Bible. But I will say this: if you want to dramatically change your life, grab the book of Proverbs. There are 31 Proverbs. Read one chapter a day for whatever day of the month it is.
[00:53:17] Sean Garner: If it doesn't have 31 days, on the 30th, read two. But if you just would do that, and you would start to think on that chapter each day, I guarantee you your life and your business would change. So that's that. I would say the two, the most influential business book that I have ever read, that I have read multiple times, I have listened to multiple times, and without like kind of sounding dramatic would, I would say it dramatically changed my life, was Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. That book is one. I was never a reader before I was a business owner, but, that book, I read it probably about five years ago and it's a negotiation book, but whenever you actually read it and apply it and understand it, it's a communication book. And so it helps you to communicate with people. Yes, negotiation is communication, but it just helps you to understand how to have a conversation with people and how to actually connect with them. And I recommend that book to everybody all the time. It’s all hands down favorite book.
[00:54:19] Albert Gillispie: Awesome. Is that the one, is that the guy, he was like an FBI negotiator?
[00:54:21] Sean Garner: Oh, so it's amazing. So one it's practical advice, but the book is written in such a way where it's so engaging because each, he was a former FBI hostage, terrorist hostage negotiator. And each chapter starts out with a hostage negotiation scenario that he really had, but then he pulls the principles out of that and helps you apply it to business. It's amazing.
[00:54:44] Kellen Ketchersid: Yeah, that's a must read. All right. We've already had one, that's like our third question. So I'm going to change it up a bit.
[00:54:51] Kellen Ketchersid: If you could go to lunch with any entrepreneur dead or alive, who would it be?
[00:54:55] Sean Garner: Oh, I would say at this point, just because I'm a fan boy, obviously, I would say Don Miller. So there's very few, with a second choice of a guy that I've been following about the past 6 to 12 months, Dan Martell. And I'm hesitant to throw out some names of people because I think especially when I was in the fitness industry, I worked for this fitness app for a long time where I was their head of marketing for some of these big, huge fitness influencers with millions of followers and stuff.
[00:55:27] Sean Garner: I think it's easy to get sucked into the vanity metrics of thinking that somebody's made it or is successful because they're big on social media. But what I've realized is that means absolutely nothing. And honestly, those big influencers, if they lost it all and had to start over, they wouldn’t even know how it happened; it just did. So they wouldn’t be able to replicate it.
[00:55:45] Sean Garner: Because of that, I think a lot of people get sucked into those things, but it's really not that impressive. The other thing is, this might sound cocky or weird, but there's nobody that I have found that has it all. And what I mean by "has it all" is they've built a successful business, they're a man or woman of God, they are fit and healthy, their kids like them, and they're on their first marriage. To me, that’s having it all. So, I’m very cautious of who I allow to speak into my life.
[00:56:08] Sean Garner: But saying that, I would say Don Miller and Dan Martell. They seem to be kind of the closest that I've found so far that have those things.
[00:56:33] Kellen Ketchersid: That's great. And I love the list you gave of having it all. I agree.
[00:56:38] Sean Garner: There's so many people like, "Oh man, that guy's crushed it. He's so successful. He has it all." Why? Because he's got money? Like, have you seen? You realize that he got divorced, right? And he never posts anything of his kids because his kids probably hate him, seems pretty far from God because he seems to be drinking and stuff all the time. People's definition of having it all, I think, is pretty vague and weak.
[00:57:04] Kellen Ketchersid: Mm-hmm. That's good.
[00:57:05] Albert Gillispie: Last question. What words of wisdom or quote do you try to live your life by?
[00:57:12] Sean Garner: I'll give you, I'll rapid-fire several here. Done is better than perfect—we kind of talked about a little bit of that earlier. But the big one is knowledge without application is meaningless.
[00:57:18] Sean Garner: We live in a society where we are bombarded with information, and too often, even business owners think they're growing their business by learning things because they're watching content on social media, they're watching a YouTube video. Nothing against podcasts—we both have one—but they're listening to the latest podcast. It doesn’t matter. Buying courses, all these things don’t matter. It’s not the information you absorb that matters; it’s what you take action on.
[00:57:59] Sean Garner: There are a lot of poor people and unsuccessful, closed-down businesses that have all the information they need to be successful but didn’t take action on the knowledge they had. Most business owners don’t need another course or another YouTube video to finally make it—they need to just shut off social media and go take action.
[00:58:12] Albert Gillispie: Oh, I love that. Oh, I love that. All right. How can people get in touch with you? How can people do business with you?
[00:58:22] Sean Garner: Yeah. Best way—just go to the website, SeanGarner.co. It's S E A N G A R N E R dot C O. On there, we got links to everything, links to all my social media. I'm probably most active on Instagram. If you send me a direct message or something on there, we've got tons of free resources and tools on the website. You can download those things. And then listen to the Marketing Domination podcast, where we talk about marketing tips and hopefully, eventually interview cool people like the Stag Business Coaching boys.
[00:58:51] Albert Gillispie: I love it.
[00:58:52] Kellen Ketchersid: Sounds great.
[00:58:52] Albert Gillispie: I love it. With the plug at the end. Yeah. All right, man. We've been wanting to do this for a while. So glad you could join us today and hold our hand through this. I appreciate it, and we'll have to have you on again sometime soon.
[00:59:06] Kellen Ketchersid: Yes. Thank you, Sean.
[00:59:07] Albert Gillispie: Thank you, guys. Well, I hope you guys got a lot out of that episode. It was packed with practical nuggets and good stories. If you want more, go ahead and click subscribe and keep coming back for the next one. And if you're a business owner who feels stuck, like your business has hit a plateau, or you're stuck in the day-to-day, go to our website at www.stagcoaching.com and click in the upper right-hand corner to take our free business assessment. In just a few minutes, with just a few questions, it will help diagnose what’s going on in your business, what's broken, and where you're stuck. We'd love to help you with that.
[00:59:57] Albert Gillispie: Thank you, guys, and we'll see you on the next one.
